Sand Riding

[partyofone]

On my third outing with the bike, I ran into something new to me...soft sand.

I knew that I would be in trouble so I was being very careful but at the end, I went down in a flash. I was having a lot of problem lifting the bike up. Luckily, a family nearby came over and help me get the bike up.

I've read that you should keep your speed up in sand. There was no way I can do that being a newbie so I keep my speed around 10-15mph. I front wheel constantly washing back and forth and I was able to hold it but I knew it would be sooner or later before I go down.

Please tell me your sand riding techniques. When you starting to lose control, do you gas it or turn into the direction that you are about to go down on? Do you stand on your pegs or sit flat on your butt? Speeding in soft sand is so counter intuitive. How do you do it?


No problems with packed sand here...







You can see my front tire's track. I was trying to turn left into the direction the bike would have gone done but the washout continue to get worse and down I went. Instead of turning left, should I barely turn and gas it?



I had no idea how heavy this pig is. I only consumed 100 miles of the tank so it still has at least 4.5 gallons or so which didn't help with the weight. I should have at least laying the bike down at home to practice picking it up. Actually, I'm now convinced that I just don't have the muscles and youth to pick this up anytime in the future. I'm still trying to figure this one out...



I the background are my rescuers: A man, his son and his father after they helped me get the bike up. I'm so thankful they were there. My back was killing me at this time..

[Granteezie]

how much sand riding do you intend on doing?

and you have plenty of strength to pick the bike up, you just need the proper technique...

not calling you a woman, but if you can't simply lift it, this is the best way to go.


if you are planning on riding a lot of sand, get more aggressive tires. they make a world of difference.

[Justin Case]

Yea, you don't want to slow down in that stuff, and the KLR650 with its tallness and high center of gravity is not the worlds best soft-sand bike. Looks like 5 meters to your right would have been the best place to turn there.

When I take my KLR to where the bikini's and soft sand reside, I try and stay on the wetter hard pan sand, and only venture onto the powdery stuff when I have to.

Riding fast in sand lets you ride up on the sand instead of sinking down into it. Slowing down or turning sharply is where shit happens.

[Justin Case]

You got to pick up a loaded KLR Greek style...
You back up to it.

[partyofone]

Originally Posted by Granteezie

how much sand riding do you intend on doing?

and you have plenty of strength to pick the bike up, you just need the proper technique...

not calling you a woman, but if you can't simply lift it, this is the best way to go.


if you are planning on riding a lot of sand, get more aggressive tires. they make a world of difference.

I live in Houston,TX which is an hour away from the beach so I figure that I would ride in sand a lot. My goal eventually is to ride on the beach wherever possible on the whole Texas coast from the Mexico boarder to the Louisiana/Texas border.

I've look at a lot of videos on how to pick up a down bike and I try all the methods to no avail. May be the fact that I was tired and worn down by the end of the day or may be it's just too heavy for my current physical condition (5' 7", 150lbs, few months shy of 50 yrs young, back surgery, shoulders surgery (both sides))...so it's ok to call me a woman

How fast (at what speed) do you ride to float the front tire off the sand where it doesn't washing back and forth?

I can't do dedicated sand tires because I need to do 60-70mph from Houston to Galveston first

[Granteezie]

My d606s helped a lot in sand. I have limited expierence riding on sand, but was told to stand on the pegs, let the bike float and move under you, or sit back on the seat.

Standing on the pegs lowers your center of gravity. Helps a bit and somewhere on this lovely forum, there is a thread about steering with your pegs. Kinda neat to try.

[citationdoc]

Since pretty much everywhere I ride offroad around here is sugar sand, I'll offer up how I deal with it:

Good knobbie tire on the rear. I have a set of K270's that work ok in sand, and good on the highway. Right now I have Shinko 705's on the bike, for commuting, so I won't be venturing into the deep stuff.

Technique: Get your weight back as far as possible. Looks like you will be riding on fairly flat sand, so butt on the seat is probably going to be most comfortable. You'll need to stand on the whoops and such. Get your a$$ back as far as is comfortable!

Keep your speed up, and look ahead as far as is reasonable. Don't look down at the sand. Look 100 feet ahead if you can, and don't fixate on the ruts.

When the bike starts squirming and dancing, grip the bike tightly with your knees, and gently pull back on the grips, with even pressure on the grips. I find that trying to "manhandle" the bike results in a spill, you just need to let the bike flow and do it's own thing. If the front end starts trying to get away from you, gassing it hard will lighten up the front and usually straighten out the bike. And the gyroscopic effect of speeding up the rear wheel will help straighten up the bike as well.

Practice! This weekend I finally got out my offroad bike (yz426f) since the weather had finally cooled to the point I could wear all my gear without sweating to death. Rode for about 4-5 hours, much of it in sand. I was real shaky the first hour or so until I got tired a bit and couldn't maintain a death grip on the bike. Once I loosened up, the bike rode much better. I hadn't rode much in the last two years. After a few hours, I got real comfortable with the sand again. That's when I finally put it down! First gear, trying to kick the back around in a tight turn.

Now that I think about it, I've never dropped it in the sand when going fast.

On saturday, I jumped the bike, landed on hardpack with my feet off the pegs. Then I went off the hard pack off a 6 foot drop into a sand pit hanging off the side off the bike. As I was trying to regain some control, and thinking I was going down, the front end started occillating as it plowed in. I just grabbed a bunch of throttle and somehow popped out the other side of the pit on two wheels. My friend who was watching, couldn't believe I didn't wreck.

Can't remember where I saw this, but it was probably somewhere on this site. To paraphrase: "When in doubt, apply full throttle. It may not be the right decision, but it will certainly end the suspense."

[Granteezie]

Originally Posted by citationdoc

Can't remember where I saw this, but it was probably somewhere on this site. To paraphrase: "When in doubt, apply full throttle. It may not be the right decision, but it will certainly end the suspense."

that would be the "when in doubt, gas it out" theory. I've found that it works more often than not.

[dahveed]

Originally Posted by citationdoc

Since pretty much everywhere I ride offroad around here is sugar sand, I'll offer up how I deal with it:

Good knobbie tire on the rear. I have a set of K270's that work ok in sand, and good on the highway. Right now I have Shinko 705's on the bike, for commuting, so I won't be venturing into the deep stuff.

Technique: Get your weight back as far as possible. Looks like you will be riding on fairly flat sand, so butt on the seat is probably going to be most comfortable. You'll need to stand on the whoops and such. Get your a$$ back as far as is comfortable!

Keep your speed up, and look ahead as far as is reasonable. Don't look down at the sand. Look 100 feet ahead if you can, and don't fixate on the ruts.

When the bike starts squirming and dancing, grip the bike tightly with your knees, and gently pull back on the grips, with even pressure on the grips. I find that trying to "manhandle" the bike results in a spill, you just need to let the bike flow and do it's own thing. If the front end starts trying to get away from you, gassing it hard will lighten up the front and usually straighten out the bike. And the gyroscopic effect of speeding up the rear wheel will help straighten up the bike as well.

Practice! This weekend I finally got out my offroad bike (yz426f) since the weather had finally cooled to the point I could wear all my gear without sweating to death. Rode for about 4-5 hours, much of it in sand. I was real shaky the first hour or so until I got tired a bit and couldn't maintain a death grip on the bike. Once I loosened up, the bike rode much better. I hadn't rode much in the last two years. After a few hours, I got real comfortable with the sand again. That's when I finally put it down! First gear, trying to kick the back around in a tight turn.

Now that I think about it, I've never dropped it in the sand when going fast.

On saturday, I jumped the bike, landed on hardpack with my feet off the pegs. Then I went off the hard pack off a 6 foot drop into a sand pit hanging off the side off the bike. As I was trying to regain some control, and thinking I was going down, the front end started occillating as it plowed in. I just grabbed a bunch of throttle and somehow popped out the other side of the pit on two wheels. My friend who was watching, couldn't believe I didn't wreck.

Can't remember where I saw this, but it was probably somewhere on this site. To paraphrase: "When in doubt, apply full throttle. It may not be the right decision, but it will certainly end the suspense."

This is a great thread. Thanks to the OP for starting it.

Weight back, speed up, a light grip on the bike and let it dance under you. What gear do you normally run on the beach at? 2nd, 3th?

Partyofone - Even if you bulk up and can stand that bike up without help, its always a good idea to ride off road with a buddy. Its not only safer, it is also more fun.

[neander]

Let some air out of your tires (12-18lbs is good), scoot your butt back and accelerate. Even slight acceleration is usually enough. When you let off of the throttle be gentle and try to minimize head dive. Let the bars have a little play and don't try to control every little twitch...Good luck

[MSGT-R]

1st off, get a big, fat front tire and life will be easier.

This paragraph has got to be the best yet:

When the bike starts squirming and dancing, grip the bike tightly with your knees, and gently pull back on the grips, with even pressure on the grips. I find that trying to "manhandle" the bike results in a spill, you just need to let the bike flow and do it's own thing. If the front end starts trying to get away from you, gassing it hard will lighten up the front and usually straighten out the bike. And the gyroscopic effect of speeding up the rear wheel will help straighten up the bike as well.

Your thighs will be sore the following day since your ass will not be spending much time on the seat.

[dahveed]

Is this the same technique for riding in mud too?

[Spec]

Originally Posted by citationdoc

Technique: Get your weight back as far as possible. Looks like you will be riding on fairly flat sand, so butt on the seat is probably going to be most comfortable. You'll need to stand on the whoops and such. Get your a$$ back as far as is comfortable!

Keep your speed up, and look ahead as far as is reasonable. Don't look down at the sand. Look 100 feet ahead if you can, and don't fixate on the ruts.

When the bike starts squirming and dancing, grip the bike tightly with your knees, and gently pull back on the grips, with even pressure on the grips. I find that trying to "manhandle" the bike results in a spill, you just need to let the bike flow and do it's own thing. If the front end starts trying to get away from you, gassing it hard will lighten up the front and usually straighten out the bike. And the gyroscopic effect of speeding up the rear wheel will help straighten up the bike as well...

Can't remember where I saw this, but it was probably somewhere on this site. To paraphrase: "When in doubt, apply full throttle. It may not be the right decision, but it will certainly end the suspense."

For higher speeds try riding in the attack position. Standing up head over the triple clamps on the gas. Hold the bike with your ankles/lower legs. The bike will have much less tendency to wander around. You have to stay on the gas though. Let your weight drift back for whoops/obstacles and then back into attack.

For turns in sand don't use your brakes accelerate through the turn. When the front starts to knife in give it more gas, be aggressive.

[partyofone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtcd1kSdlQY

Found this video with some clips of US Marines riding the KLR on deep soft sand...

[txdiamond17]

I ride in alot of soft sugar sand here as well. All of the pointers are good advice. I find the more I ride in it the safer I feel. If I go a couple of months without being in sand, I tend to feel awkward for the first few miles. The death grip is the worst thing to overcome. Just letting the bike do its thing feels counterintuitive, until you realize it actually works. The soft sand is when I really wish there was a 1.5 gear. 1st gear I am wrapped up tight, 2nd I am going too fast. So I usually keep her in 1st and hammer down. I am just now becoming comfortable with standing up, I grew up on dirt bikes sitting down. Just practice and find what works for you. That way you will probably get some practice picking the pig up as well. Just for thought, when I ride knowing the day will involve sand or mud or other tough terrain, I only fill enough gas to get to the next stop. You will be amazed how much lighter the pig feels when there is only 2-3 gls vs 5+ in the tank.

[Scott_Rides_Again]

All good advice. Can't offer any expertise in the sand, but if you dig holes for the tires it is much easier to get her back up right.

[Kevinhooa]

Here near the NJ Pine Barrens there's miles and miles of soft sand roads. It's tough riding and definitely requires some practice to get good at it. One thing that absolutely helped me was just standing up. Even if you have to do it for a long time, it really makes a huge difference. It can be tough on the knees, but if you end up doing it a lot, your muscles kind of build up a tolerance. Having good tread on the front tire was another huge bonus for the "sugar" sand as having something for the front tire to bite with seemed to really help for me. At least the good thing is, it's soft and the sand seems to almost "catch" the bike if you fall over into it. As for picking the bike up, try the lifting with you back against the tank. Or maybe pick up a nylon web tow strap and see if wrapping that around the bars or whatever helps. Or lever it up with a dead tree if your in the woods. I've never tried the last two, but I guess they could help. Good luck with the sandy riding!

[dahveed]

Originally Posted by Kevinhooa

Here near the NJ Pine Barrens there's miles and miles of soft sand roads. It's tough riding and definitely requires some practice to get good at it. One thing that absolutely helped me was just standing up. Even if you have to do it for a long time, it really makes a huge difference. It can be tough on the knees, but if you end up doing it a lot, your muscles kind of build up a tolerance. Having good tread on the front tire was another huge bonus for the "sugar" sand as having something for the front tire to bite with seemed to really help for me. At least the good thing is, it's soft and the sand seems to almost "catch" the bike if you fall over into it. As for picking the bike up, try the lifting with you back against the tank. Or maybe pick up a nylon web tow strap and see if wrapping that around the bars or whatever helps. Or lever it up with a dead tree if your in the woods. I've never tried the last two, but I guess they could help. Good luck with the sandy riding!

Hey, its good advice to also ride with a buddy. Nothing like a minor injury or mechanical away from cell service to become major problem.

[surfersami]

Never, never, ever turn sharp in soft sand! your tire will act like a bulldozer blade and you will lose momentum and the weight will shift forward making it dig even more. Look at the picture where the bike went down at the beach, the track gets deeper until just before it tips over.
You have to ride smooooooooothly in the sand. Momentum is good, acceleration unloads the front tire weight. Go with a 3.25 or even a 3.5 front tire with a trials tread pattern.
This is a shinko 241, I think they come in a 3" x 21. It would be a good sand tire.
Remember, a driven tire needs some type of paddle, the front needs to float.
On my Samurai in the sand in FL I ran street tires and never Had problems in the sand, mud tires dig holes, and loosing momentum really starts the holes fast!

[Dan Diego]

I did a whole lot of off-road riding in Baja this weekend. The first day was almost all dirt and sand -- prolly 90+ miles.


Some of the sand was pretty deep. I had a loaded KLR with K750s on it; the other riders had KTMs with aggressive knobbies.

I've never been a fan of sand with big bikes...my last pig was a 1150GS...but if you gotta get from Point A to Point B and there's sand in the middle...

I followed the suggestions from the above experienced sand riders, and they're correct.

However, I give you MY riding technique for sand, be in deep or shallow: Slow and steady, tractor through. I have yet to drop my bike, not once. I put it in 2nd gear (maybe 3rd if it's not too deep) and just roll through, butt as far back as possible.

I use the throttle to keep forward momentum, but that's all.

A biggie would be tire pressure, front and rear. Street pressure just doesn't cut it in the sand. If you're ONLY riding in sand, drop the pressure to under 20 psi (maybe 15). I had to leave the tires at street psi due to the very rocky terrain that always followed the sandy areas. I got through, but it wasn't fun.

And the next day was a lot of the same coming back.

Practice, practice, practice. You may not become a sand-riding pro, but you will feel more comfortable in the loose stuff. That's my experience, anyhow.

Good post.