Impossible to kick start - give up or fix?

[vtraudt]

My 1987 has been difficult to start (hot or cold) since I go her (several years ago) and got much worse. Now, 80% of the time I can't get her to start at all. Push start the only way. Also does not hold stable idle. Other symptoms: some oil leak (valve cover, cylinder head?), valve noise (chain rattle) got louder over the years.

Shop guy commented that low compression could cause bad start.

Since I use her as a daily driver for short trips, the current situation is not tolerable anymore. Either I part her out and replace with other KLR250 ($1,500 budget) or other mid size dual sport with e-start (DRZ-400S or similar, TT225, etc.).

Or put some effort and little $$$ in and remedy the situation?
If I were to pursue: where to start? Can a compression test be done on a kickstart engine? What value should I see?
Buying a used engine may be cost prohibitive (I have seen some asking $1k, one part out here on the forum wants $300; pretty much the max $$$ I am willing to put in), but may be the most valid option (considering my oil leak, worn clutch, questionable carb).

Suggestions where to start?

[vtraudt]

I should add: when she starts up, she won't take ANY throttle for a while; have to let her idle, then it takes a little throttle. After maybe a minute, is runs ok.

[Nastyman]

Every symptom you described is related to a regular maintenance item that should be performed at least every other year. a Valve Adjustment.

Do that and all your issues will go away.

-Shaun

[vtraudt]

I did/tried it some years ago. Any links to good DIY write ups?
Any parts I should consider replacing?

Originally Posted by Nastyman

Every symptom you described is related to a regular maintenance item that should be performed at least every other year. a Valve Adjustment.

Do that and all your issues will go away.

-Shaun

[Nastyman]

Originally Posted by vtraudt

I did/tried it some years ago. Any links to good DIY write ups?
Any parts I should consider replacing?

How many miles? Valves if left too tight for a long time can get deformed and be permanently incorrectly set. You may have to replace the valves.

The classic sign for tight valves is engine tapping noise and difficulty starting. both of which you have.
I really suggest taking another look at the valve adjustment. some KLR's need an adjustment every year as it is a very common problem.

Once the valves are adjusted, THEN you should check the carb adjustment, specifically the idle screw which is hidden behind a little metal cap towards the front underneath the carb. 1 3/4 turns out from fully seated should be a good starting point.


I would guarantee you issue is a combination of out of adjustment Valves and a dirty/improperly adjusted carb.

The service manuals have information on valve adjustments.
Or, rather than spending $1500, bring your bike in for a good tune up. It may cost you $300 max, but you will have properly adjusted /lubed cables and chain, Adjusted valves and a tuned carb. Most importantly, a bike that you can use as your daily driver again!

[vtraudt]

Originally Posted by Nastyman

How many miles? Valves if left too tight for a long time can get deformed and be permanently incorrectly set. You may have to replace the valves.

The classic sign for tight valves is engine tapping noise and difficulty starting. both of which you have.
I really suggest taking another look at the valve adjustment. some KLR's need an adjustment every year as it is a very common problem.

Once the valves are adjusted, THEN you should check the carb adjustment, specifically the idle screw which is hidden behind a little metal cap towards the front underneath the carb. 1 3/4 turns out from fully seated should be a good starting point.


I would guarantee you issue is a combination of out of adjustment Valves and a dirty/improperly adjusted carb.

The service manuals have information on valve adjustments.
Or, rather than spending $1500, bring your bike in for a good tune up. It may cost you $300 max, but you will have properly adjusted /lubed cables and chain, Adjusted valves and a tuned carb. Most importantly, a bike that you can use as your daily driver again!

Since used complete motor or complete heads/valves seem to be cost prohibitive, I want to prepare to 'fix her'.

Rather than open her up and determine what may or may not need fix, I rather assume that she has suffered a lot (she HAS!), and want to replace anything that is susceptible to wear/damage (the valve clatter has been terrible for years now).

a) what should I consider replacing
b) sources to look for those parts

I am thinking:
- timing chain
- timing chain guide
- valves
- valve guides
- valve cover gasket
- cylinder head gasket
please correct/add/comment the list!

I will also inspect the pistons, rings, cylinders, and either replace rings, possibly pistons (heard they are not that expansive) and have a friend of mine freshen up the cylinder bore?

[MSGT-R]

Originally Posted by vtraudt

I should add: when she starts up, she won't take ANY throttle for a while; have to let her idle, then it takes a little throttle. After maybe a minute, is runs ok.

All that points to an almost clogged idle jet. The jets are small on these bikes and it doesn't take much to clog them.

Valve adjustment, especially the exhaust side, because of the Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release (KACR) is really important too.

Both of these items are relitively simple to do, but will take an afternoon to do both. Get really picky with the jet cleaning.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Originally Posted by MSGT-R

All that points to an almost clogged idle jet. The jets are small on these bikes and it doesn't take much to clog them.

Valve adjustment, especially the exhaust side, because of the Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release (KACR) is really important too.

Both of these items are relitively simple to do, but will take an afternoon to do both. Get really picky with the jet cleaning.

+1 on the above... Make sure your at compression TDC using the rotor marks, cam gear marks when adjusting the valves.

And start running some Seafoam as regular maintainance to keep that carb clean...


I'd hold off changing other parts until its semi running decent, then your not just throwing parts at it... I've gotten over 64,000 miles out of an original piston and rings on my old 1989, cam chain from 28,000 (on my old 2005, 350) to 73,000 miles(on my 1989)

Some other preventive maintainance is cleaning the oil screen under the clutch cover located at the botom...

Good luck..

[vtraudt]

Thanks.
I will do timing and carb cleaning soon.

Seafoam better than carb/injector additives (I put those in once in a while)?

Originally Posted by TownsendsFJR1300

+1 on the above...
I'd hold off changing other parts until its semi running decent, then your not just throwing parts at it...

[Rube]

It sounds like you need to take the carb off the bike, disassemble it and clean it very well.
I doubt that running seafoam or any other additive through the gas is going to take care of your issues.
As folks posted above there are small brass jets and passageways in the carb body that become plugged up with dirt, varnish, and maybe even rust from the old tanks on these bikes.
I suggest some type of soak (google lemon juice carb cleaning, or pine sol carb cleaning). Then I would make sure you can pass air from a compressor and a small wire from a welding tip cleaner through all the jets and passages. The gallon sized carb dip buckets at auto parts stores have worked for me in the past, but if you leave any rubber seals in the carb the carb dip bucket can destroy the rubber.
I found the main air jet and starter jet plugged on my bike after many attempts at cleaning. Pushing and "drilling" the smallest wire in the tip cleaning set through the jets was how I finally got them cleaned.
The bike took 30 or more kicks to start when cold with those two jets clogged. After cleaning them it has been starting second kick ( so far).

Good luck.

Rube

[MSGT-R]

These smaller sized carbs (unlike the 650s) are a major Pain in the Arse to get the jets and passages clean. The idle circuit and slow jet seem to be the biggest pains in that department.

When letting a bike sit for more than a week or two folks, please utilize the drain screw at the bottom of the carb. Drain it! It takes a 3mm allen tool. Catch the gas at the bottom and put it back in your tank if you're worried about a mess (it's only a small dixie cup full).

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Originally Posted by MSGT-R

These smaller sized carbs (unlike the 650s) are a major Pain in the Arse to get the jets and passages clean. The idle circuit and slow jet seem to be the biggest pains in that department.

When letting a bike sit for more than a week or two folks, please utilize the drain screw at the bottom of the carb. Drain it! It takes a 3mm allen tool. Catch the gas at the bottom and put it back in your tank if you're worried about a mess (it's only a small dixie cup full).

+1 on the above.

Chevron Techtron is a good cleaner, Seafoam is a combo cleaner, fuel stabilizer..

For the really small jets, I've cut off a piece of wire from a SS hand wire brush. I then clamped it in a small vise grip and used that to open up super small orifices. .

Depending on how bad the carb is a manual cleaning may be necessary.

I have seen Seafoam, after draining the carbs on a 500 Kawasaki twin, which were completly clogged, clear out the carbs WITHOUT dissassembling the carbs. We drained the float bowls, then re-filled with straight Seafoam and let it work. Several hours later, we drained the Seafoam, put in fresh gas and it friggin fired up! Misfired and smoked a bit but eventually ran great!

Absolutly no dissassembly.. Great stuff...