KLR650.NET Forums - Your Kawasaki KLR650 Resource! - The Original KLR650 Forum!
Go Back   KLR650.NET Forums - Your Kawasaki KLR650 Resource! - The Original KLR650 Forum! > KLR650.NET - Kawasaki KLR650 Forums > KLR650 Main Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
KLR650 Main Discussion First generation KLR650 Related Topics, 1987-2007


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #1
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Perpetually failing shift lever....

Am I alone with this problem? Do any of you suffer from "go to shift and the shift lever is gone" issue?

This has happened with both brands of after market shift lever that I have tried. The only one that did not do this is the OEM and I really don't want to go back to that.

Currently running IMS.

When I tighten this 10MM bolt to near the breaking point and I'm pretty sure I will never be able to get it off again... life is good. BUT within about a month the lever fails to grasp the outer spline area and the inner spline part of the lever shifts over and the lever just flops down useless. Not sure I painted a good picture there.. but it grabs the splines ok closest to the engine... but it is visibly loose around the outer or end of the shaft. I can see a large crack or space between the shaft and the lever when tightening the bolt. I have resorted to stuffing various things into that crack in order to cause it to be shimmed for lack of a better word? I have used solder, tiny wire, and even pounded a wooden dowel into the face of the shaft to force wood slivers in there. All of the above if successfully forced into said crack work for a few weeks then fail. I am so tired of this. I am thinking of just having it welded on and when that lever fails just driving the bike off into a deep alligator infested ditch and walking away. GRRRRR!!

Now surely this has happened to somebody else and they have come up with a novel idea that fixed it short of replacing the shaft itself?

Tomorrow, barring any outstanding ideas here I will remove it once more and degrease it... and wrap the outer knurled area with teflon tape a wrap or three and try that.

Somewhere out there in shade tree mechanic land is one lurker, one member here who has probably never posted that knows the answer to this.... now is your time... Post away....
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 11:42 PM   #2
WiRider
Not one of the experts.
 
Super Cool Since: Mar 2012
Locale: Madison WI
Postings: 2,209
WiRider has a spectacular aura aboutWiRider has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

I think the experts here, (me NOT being one of them), would have enough information to work with if you were to remove the shift lever, grease, and teflon tape, and post a few pics of the offending splines you shove that shift lever onto.

Teflon tape does raise my interests as a possible cause. Stuff is designed to be super slippery. I'm going to have to take the backseat on this one though and listen.
__________________
2002 55k smiles...
WiRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 07-15-2013, 12:27 AM   #3
PolarKev
 
Super Cool Since: Oct 2009
Locale: Northern Arizona
Postings: 30
PolarKev is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geebee View Post
Somewhere out there in shade tree mechanic land is one lurker, one member here who has probably never posted that knows the answer to this.... now is your time... Post away....
I'll be the lurker that posts...

Without pictures, it sounds like the splines on the shaft are stripped off. On my '07, the entire shaft is splined, on either side of the bolt cutaway. I got a good look at it, I had to move my shifter lever the other day.

I can't say how involved replacing the shaft would be, but maybe try JB Weld? Not quite as permanent as an actual weld, but would allow a way to pull the shifter lever off when you decide to replace the shaft? (If that is indeed the problem... still guessing here.)

Also entirely likely that the shifter lever's bore is too big for the shaft? but even then, with the bolt in place, it shouldn't have enough room to move over on the shaft that much. Again, pics would help.

Also consider that the shaft and current shifter may have worn out as a pair, so if you replace the shaft, you may need to replace the lever, too.

Hope that helps!
__________________
Back to lurking with me.

2007 KLR650 - Slide
2013 WR250R - TwoBitty
'99 Hayabusa - The Busa
PolarKev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 12:59 AM   #4
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarKev View Post
I'll be the lurker that posts...

Without pictures, it sounds like the splines on the shaft are stripped off. On my '07, the entire shaft is splined, on either side of the bolt cutaway. I got a good look at it, I had to move my shifter lever the other day.

I can't say how involved replacing the shaft would be, but maybe try JB Weld? Not quite as permanent as an actual weld, but would allow a way to pull the shifter lever off when you decide to replace the shaft? (If that is indeed the problem... still guessing here.)

Also entirely likely that the shifter lever's bore is too big for the shaft? but even then, with the bolt in place, it shouldn't have enough room to move over on the shaft that much. Again, pics would help.

Also consider that the shaft and current shifter may have worn out as a pair, so if you replace the shaft, you may need to replace the lever, too.

Hope that helps!
Ahhh a lurker surfaces... good points. I did the JB Weld once and it did last longer than the other fixes. May go back to that after the teflon tape trials.

I will attempt to get some close up photos tomorrow and post them up. Flickr is not working at the moment for me.... so it may be a problem.

This bike is a 92 model and has 68K on it so it might be worn, however when looking at the outer spline it appears ok.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 01:30 AM   #5
Gointharto
A Regular
 
Super Cool Since: Dec 2012
Locale: Litchfield,Illinois
Postings: 247
Gointharto is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

When you tighten the 10mm bolt, does the shifter clamp go completely closed in the area where the bolt goes through? There should be a gap there to show the clamping action is working. If there isn't a gap there you may try some how to remove some metal to make that slot wider.
__________________
2012 Blue KLR650, adventure ready. I have a cyclelogical problem
Gointharto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 01:33 AM   #6
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gointharto View Post
When you tighten the 10mm bolt, does the shifter clamp go completely closed in the area where the bolt goes through? There should be a gap there to show the clamping action is working. If there isn't a gap there you may try some how to remove some metal to make that slot wider.
There is a gap... but that is an idea. Maybe it's not the same on the inside as on the outside where the gap is visible. Hmmm.... have to inspect that tomorrow.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 02:48 AM   #7
Beezerboy
KLR Enthusiast
 
Super Cool Since: Feb 2006
Locale: Alaska
Postings: 1,231
Beezerboy is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

the IMS is some hard ass steel.... too tough for the clamping bolt.

2 ways to fix.... pinch the gap tighter in the vise so the hole fits the shaft tighter from the start, or cut the compression slot across to the other side (moves the "hinge point" of the gap).
Beezerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 07-15-2013, 09:22 AM   #8
jeffsaline
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2008
Locale: Rapid City, South Dakota
Postings: 8,141
jeffsaline has a spectacular aura aboutjeffsaline has a spectacular aura aboutjeffsaline has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

I don't think jamming stuff that will easily shear, like wood, teflon tape (which has been pointed out is suppose to be slippery), solder, tiny wire etc will ever be a long term fix. JB Weld isn't designed to work in a shear situation so I think that is a fix waiting to fail.

Without seeing it and examining the splined areas my suggestion is not easily reversable. So if it gets screwed up it will be a lot of work to fix.

Drill a hole at the junction of the shaft and the lever. 180 degrees from the clamping bolt seems like a good area and I think you can get to it too. Then tap a roll pin into the hole. Leave some sticking out so you can grab it with a vise grip if needed for extraction and also tap on it with a small hammer if you need it to go in further. It will only go in as deep as the hole is drilled so no need to tap on it once that depth is reached.

Just out of curiosity... what's wrong with the stock lever? I put an aftermarket lever on mine in 2004 because most folks seemed to think the stock lever couldn't cut it. I've bent the aftermarket lever a couple of times and thought maybe the stock lever would actually be better for me. If it cracks I can weld it. If it's bent I can straighten it. If it's broken I can replace the broken part. I can easily make it longer or shorter if I don't like it's length. And maybe most important I would rather bend the lever than the shaft. So having the stock lever in place might save me a lot of work down the road/trail.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Jeff
__________________
Jeff Saline

Do Not Steal, Do Not Lie, Do Not Be Lazy

Good, Fast, Cheap - - - Pick Two

"Just because something isn't true, no reason you can't believe it." Hub McCann in Secondhand Lions

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
jeffsaline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #9
Swampwhore
All Farked Up
 
Swampwhore's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2009
Locale: The Wet Spot
Postings: 1,250
Swampwhore is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Sounds to me like the splines on the shaft are worn or stripped. Cramming stuff in there is probably making it worse. The shit lever should have to he removed from the shaft in order to clock it differently. Also, when you put the bolt through, it should go through a detent in the shaft; a "cutout" area for the bolt. Even if the bolt is not tightened, you should not be able to pull the lever off is the bolt is in and the lever is on the shaft in the correct position.

A picture would help. But, based on what you are saying, it sounds like the issue is the shaft, not the lever. While I have not removed the shaft on a KLR, I have on other single cylinder bikes and it isn't too big a deal. You will likely need to pull the right side cover (cover gasket, water pump gasket/oil seal). Don't quote me on it though... Again, take a picture and post it. I'm not too far from you (Orlando), and while I'm pretty busy with work and three kids, I might be able to help out if you need it.
Swampwhore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #10
big dan
 
big dan's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: May 2012
Locale: brooklyn, iowa
Postings: 721
big dan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

I recently had my lever off to clock it and I didn't pay any attention but are the splines machined or forged into the shaft? if they are machined there is most likely a radius at the innermost portion of the splines that is causing you to get a false grip on the rest of the splined section... in other words you may be pushing the shift lever on too far... try mounting it out further on the shaft and see how that works...
__________________
dan
2011 klr 650, EM doohickey with torsion spring & fork brace, EM 1"lowering links leo vince X3 slip on, Eibach 450# rear spring, JNS skidplate,
sw motec crash bars, dirtracks, Warp 9 19" front
big dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:34 AM   #11
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampwhore View Post
Sounds to me like the splines on the shaft are worn or stripped. Cramming stuff in there is probably making it worse. The shit lever should have to he removed from the shaft in order to clock it differently. Also, when you put the bolt through, it should go through a detent in the shaft; a "cutout" area for the bolt. Even if the bolt is not tightened, you should not be able to pull the lever off is the bolt is in and the lever is on the shaft in the correct position.

A picture would help. But, based on what you are saying, it sounds like the issue is the shaft, not the lever. While I have not removed the shaft on a KLR, I have on other single cylinder bikes and it isn't too big a deal. You will likely need to pull the right side cover (cover gasket, water pump gasket/oil seal). Don't quote me on it though... Again, take a picture and post it. I'm not too far from you (Orlando), and while I'm pretty busy with work and three kids, I might be able to help out if you need it.
The splines look the same to me. The rear and the front both look ok. I suspect that the gap is uneven in the IMS shifter. I have been prying on it. The factory guy from IMS said that they have had problems with production and to put it in a vise and bend it to an appropriate angle. (It was scraping the heck out of the case when shifting) While there I pried the gap open further and may have caused the rear of the gap to be closer than the front which would give my symptoms... I think.

Thanks for the offer of help... lets hope I don't have to open her up. I really suspect the after market shifter. Will be working on it today and taking pictures if I don't get rained out as usual.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:36 AM   #12
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by big dan View Post
I recently had my lever off to clock it and I didn't pay any attention but are the splines machined or forged into the shaft? if they are machined there is most likely a radius at the innermost portion of the splines that is causing you to get a false grip on the rest of the splined section... in other words you may be pushing the shift lever on too far... try mounting it out further on the shaft and see how that works...
I have no idea as to machined or forged. I have tried mounting it out further but that did not work at all. I suspect the gap is wrong at this point....
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #13
Swampwhore
All Farked Up
 
Swampwhore's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2009
Locale: The Wet Spot
Postings: 1,250
Swampwhore is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Not trying to be an a$$hat, but
Swampwhore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #14
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsaline View Post
I don't think jamming stuff that will easily shear, like wood, teflon tape (which has been pointed out is suppose to be slippery), solder, tiny wire etc will ever be a long term fix. JB Weld isn't designed to work in a shear situation so I think that is a fix waiting to fail.

Without seeing it and examining the splined areas my suggestion is not easily reversable. So if it gets screwed up it will be a lot of work to fix.

Drill a hole at the junction of the shaft and the lever. 180 degrees from the clamping bolt seems like a good area and I think you can get to it too. Then tap a roll pin into the hole. Leave some sticking out so you can grab it with a vise grip if needed for extraction and also tap on it with a small hammer if you need it to go in further. It will only go in as deep as the hole is drilled so no need to tap on it once that depth is reached.

Just out of curiosity... what's wrong with the stock lever? I put an aftermarket lever on mine in 2004 because most folks seemed to think the stock lever couldn't cut it. I've bent the aftermarket lever a couple of times and thought maybe the stock lever would actually be better for me. If it cracks I can weld it. If it's bent I can straighten it. If it's broken I can replace the broken part. I can easily make it longer or shorter if I don't like it's length. And maybe most important I would rather bend the lever than the shaft. So having the stock lever in place might save me a lot of work down the road/trail.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Jeff
You may be on to something here, Jeff. Although the OEM shifters eventually fail and I am not able to weld anything.... at the current rate of failures I am experiencing with after market shifters I could purchase a stock one and replace it every 8 years or so.... and be way ahead of the game. Hmmm.....
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 07-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #15
GoMotor
 
Super Cool Since: Oct 2009
Locale: Texas
Postings: 6,234
GoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really nice
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geebee View Post
I have no idea as to machined or forged. I have tried mounting it out further but that did not work at all. I suspect the gap is wrong at this point....
Let's get a point cleared up here. Earlier you mentioned the lever slips back on the shaft after a while. Here you mention "tried mounting it out further". Mine is a gen2, but every shifter shaft I can recall working on had a groove around the shaft with splines on both sides of the groove. The pinch bolt on the lever goes through the top half of the lever, through the groove in the shaft and then through the bottom half of the lever and the lever can not slide in or out with the bolt in place - even with the bolt loose. You can not slide the lever on to the shaft with the bolt sitting loosely in the lever because edge of the bolt obstructs part of the hole in the lever.

If your gen1 is like my gen2 and you can slide the after market lever on with the bolt loosely in place, then the bore in the lever is too big for the shaft and you have the wrong lever.

If you have room to stick stuff like soldering wire in between the shaft and the lever, one or both are worn out or the lever is too big.

Forget the Teflon. It is used a lubricant to allow a round outer pipe to slide over the rough spots on a round inner pipe.

Last edited by GoMotor; 07-15-2013 at 03:18 PM.
GoMotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 04:02 PM   #16
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
Let's get a point cleared up here. Earlier you mentioned the lever slips back on the shaft after a while. Here you mention "tried mounting it out further". Mine is a gen2, but every shifter shaft I can recall working on had a groove around the shaft with splines on both sides of the groove. The pinch bolt on the lever goes through the top half of the lever, through the groove in the shaft and then through the bottom half of the lever and the lever can not slide in or out with the bolt in place - even with the bolt loose. You can not slide the lever on to the shaft with the bolt sitting loosely in the lever because edge of the bolt obstructs part of the hole in the lever.

If your gen1 is like my gen2 and you can slide the after market lever on with the bolt loosely in place, then the bore in the lever is too big for the shaft and you have the wrong lever.

If you have room to stick stuff like soldering wire in between the shaft and the lever, one or both are worn out or the lever is too big.

Forget the Teflon. It is used a lubricant to allow a round outer pipe to slide over the rough spots on a round inner pipe.
I can't place the shift lever on the shaft with the bolt in place.
When I say room for this stuff.. I mean a crack so tiny that its almost impossible to get anything in there. JB Weld oozes... and wood dowels pounded into the crack sheds teeny spinters or nothing would get in there. This is the correct lever. I checked.

Also the teflon tape works. It has nothing to do with lubricating... it has to do with increasing the diameter ever so slightly of the outer splines. With 1.5 wraps of teflon which is almost nothing... because it falls down in between the splines... the thickness was enough to allow the bolt to tighten the lever to the point both inner and outer splines are tight now. Again, the teflon was only wrapped around the outer splines. Just a teeny bit of teflon tape made the difference.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 05:15 PM   #17
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Test drive proves out ok. Now to record how long the teflon lasts. May last the same as the others... who knows.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 05:39 PM   #18
GoMotor
 
Super Cool Since: Oct 2009
Locale: Texas
Postings: 6,234
GoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really niceGoMotor is just really nice
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

If it just needs to take up that small extra bit of space to clamp tight, squeeze it closed in a vice and run a hacksaw down through the parting line to give the bolt a little more room to pull it down tight.
GoMotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 07:49 PM   #19
Chuck B
LEVEL 3 STAFF
 
Super Cool Since: Jun 2009
Locale: Flagstaff, Az
Postings: 14,931
Chuck B is a name known to allChuck B is a name known to allChuck B is a name known to allChuck B is a name known to allChuck B is a name known to allChuck B is a name known to all
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
If it just needs to take up that small extra bit of space to clamp tight, squeeze it closed in a vice and run a hacksaw down through the parting line to give the bolt a little more room to pull it down tight.
Bingo!
__________________
Chuck B
Flagstaff, Az
Chuck B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 10:14 PM   #20
Geebee
1992 A6
A Regular
 
Geebee's Avatar
 
Super Cool Since: Apr 2013
Locale: Auburndale, Fl
Postings: 224
Geebee is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Perpetually failing shift lever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
If it just needs to take up that small extra bit of space to clamp tight, squeeze it closed in a vice and run a hacksaw down through the parting line to give the bolt a little more room to pull it down tight.
I shall do that as soon as the teflon fails OR pending the next road trip whichever comes first. Sounds like it might help. I have photos that I took today... let me try and upload them.
__________________
1992 A6
Geebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Reply

Tags
failing, lever, perpetually, shift

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright KLR650.NETAd Management by RedTyger