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Old 02-13-2018, 05:32 PM   #121
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

I am DFINITELY not an expert. I have very limited experience in dirt, but 40+ years on the slab (all over the world), and four seasons of racing Superbikes. I want tubeless tires on the track (and on the slab), but tubes off road (post above mine lists some VERY valid reasons for that).

Dropping the air pressure in tubeless tires (as we do when we go off pavement, and into the loose stuff), is pretty dicey, to say the least. If that bead breaks,......well, I don't have to draw you pictures here, do I? I would NOT take a bike with tubeless tires in the sand,......period.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:00 PM   #122
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

Honda's intention for the AT was a dirt biased large displacement ADV bike. Thus the name CRF1000L Africa Twin. CRF and Africa Twin are two such clues. Must have done something right as KTM had to counter with the 1090. And as is usually the case the 1090 one up'd the AT in that category.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:11 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck B View Post
Honda's intention for the AT was a dirt biased large displacement ADV bike. Thus the name CRF1000L Africa Twin. CRF and Africa Twin are two such clues. Must have done something right as KTM had to counter with the 1090. And as is usually the case the 1090 one up'd the AT in that category.
Yes they did. Those Austrians love the top of the podium.

But the 1090 is too tall and too mean for me......and it doesn't have the scooter mode that my AT has.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:01 PM   #124
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

I put up with Mitch's antics because they're funny... and sort of like when a cat wants in, and it paws ineffectively at the sliding glass door. After a while, you sort of take pity and let the flea bitten mouse eater in.

Surprised to see no one mentioned wheels when explaining why there's tubes in Honda tires.

Spokes are better in wheels when banging around off road...

Difficult to run tubeless with spokes.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:13 PM   #125
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I put up with Mitch's antics because they're funny... and sort of like when a cat wants in.............
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:20 PM   #126
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Yes they did. Those Austrians love the top of the podium.

But the 1090 is too tall and too mean for me......and it doesn't have the scooter mode that my AT has.
As you recall, I was really surprised how much I liked the AT offroad. IT would run circles around my Super Tenere. Downside of the AT is Honda managed to keep just enough CRF DNA in the chassis that you quickly override the suspension and front tire. (I'd take it over a Gen2 offroad) I had 3 front flats my first day on the AT while offroad. It just wants to go that much faster or seem its capable of going that much faster. 500lbs will ALWAYS be the common denominator. Law of physics...

KTM 1090 beats the honda engine wise (not hard to do) and suspension is better matched to its offroad capability. BUT...you still have that silly fact with law of physics. 500+lbs is still 500+lbs.

Truth is if it has two wheels and an engine I'm going to enjoy riding it. My XR100 is an absolute ball when you get 4 or 5 of us idiots doing figure 8 racing at the same time on them. I picked up a TW200 recently and I'm going to show up on that next time for our figure 8 races. I doubt I can out accelerate the XR but I know I can certainly run one over with little consequence lol.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:10 AM   #127
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Difficult to run tubeless with spokes.
Not THAT difficult. My R1200C has tubeless tires on spoke wheels.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:05 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck B View Post
As you recall, I was really surprised how much I liked the AT offroad. IT would run circles around my Super Tenere. Downside of the AT is Honda managed to keep just enough CRF DNA in the chassis that you quickly override the suspension and front tire. (I'd take it over a Gen2 offroad) I had 3 front flats my first day on the AT while offroad. It just wants to go that much faster or seem its capable of going that much faster. 500lbs will ALWAYS be the common denominator. Law of physics...

KTM 1090 beats the honda engine wise (not hard to do) and suspension is better matched to its offroad capability. BUT...you still have that silly fact with law of physics. 500+lbs is still 500+lbs.

Truth is if it has two wheels and an engine I'm going to enjoy riding it. My XR100 is an absolute ball when you get 4 or 5 of us idiots doing figure 8 racing at the same time on them. I picked up a TW200 recently and I'm going to show up on that next time for our figure 8 races. I doubt I can out accelerate the XR but I know I can certainly run one over with little consequence lol.
Regarding the suspension limitations....Remember how I kinda went a little hog nuts with my Gen 2. Well......I did it again. I called Cogent. I will now have a full Ohlins suspension on the AT. I decided to not just replace the OEM cartridges with Ohlins cartridges.....I replaced the entire set of forks. It's a long story, but the bottom line is....I wanted them. I think this suspension could even handle the mad skillz of Chuck B......Instead it will be massively wasted on the lowly skills of Mitch. So sad

Pics below of the goodies.





And seeing how I was ALL-IN.....I also added one of these

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Old 02-14-2018, 01:20 AM   #129
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P.S. Of all my bikes I think the most fun per pound is the TW. My wife and I have a blast running around on gravel roads and trails. Completely gutless. Way limited suspension travel. But an absolute hoot to ride....like big mini bikes.

You should grab another one. Two is better than one.

By the way.....Did you see this?

https://youtu.be/BqxWY6X3Q6k


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Old 02-14-2018, 09:37 AM   #130
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Mitch" View Post
P.S. Of all my bikes I think the most fun per pound is the TW. My wife and I have a blast running around on gravel roads and trails. Completely gutless. Way limited suspension travel. But an absolute hoot to ride....like big mini bikes.

You should grab another one. Two is better than one.

By the way.....Did you see this?

https://youtu.be/BqxWY6X3Q6k


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Tricking out your bikes ,Well that's just your style...That TW looks Awesome . I agree The TW's are a lot of fun, I definitely have sellers remorse
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 AM   #131
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

Not a sad waste at all! In my experiences, dollar for dollar best money spent on a bike is suspension. It was about 20yrs ago when I had enough money along with sponsors with deep enough pockets to go full custom ohlins. It was a whole new bike and I became a much better rider.

Looking back at my racing there were 4 measurable moments that changed me;

1 finding an experienced racer who mentored me
2 learning suspension - how it works, how to setup, to revalve and adjust.
3 swallowing my pride and going from open class back down to 250cc road bikes. Little to no hp teaches you riding skills/strategy you can't get with high HP bikes.
4 application of GPS and telemetry software. Just eye-opening what you can learn
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:45 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielsand View Post
Not THAT difficult. My R1200C has tubeless tires on spoke wheels.
Explain that to Honda, I'm sure they'll offer it as an option. Comparing the goodies on an R1200 and a Honda AT is like saying why doesn't my sedan come with racing wheels...

Spoked wheels are better offroad than cast wheels... tubed tires are needed for spoked wheels, unless you spend money to get sealed spokes... good luck getting Honda to include that at their price point.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:30 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Mitch" View Post
Regarding the suspension limitations....Remember how I kinda went a little hog nuts with my Gen 2. Well......I did it again. I called Cogent. I will now have a full Ohlins suspension on the AT. I decided to not just replace the OEM cartridges with Ohlins cartridges.....I replaced the entire set of forks.
Nicely done! .....why am I not surprized?




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Old 02-14-2018, 07:45 PM   #134
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Tricking out your bikes ,Well that's just your style...That TW looks Awesome . I agree The TW's are a lot of fun, I definitely have sellers remorse
Hi Don -

The TW's are safe in my shop. I tested my wife some time ago by saying "I'm thinking about selling the TW's" She spun around and gave me the stink eye followed immediately with "NO YOU'RE NOT. If you want to sell one of your bikes, go ahead, but you're not selling mine". I'm happy I didn't lose a testicle.

Favorite TW video....posted before, but just a good vibe video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W0BEYGh3C8

EDIT......Note at 1:35 the guy is doing a Chuck B impression.


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Old 02-14-2018, 08:29 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Nicely done! .....why am I not surprized?


Dave
You got that right.

But I sure enjoy upgrading my bikes. I know I'll never get the most out of them, but I also like knowing that they are set up perfectly for me.

Rick at Cogent is fantastic. He sat on the phone with me for about 45 minutes talking about what I want to do, some issues with the AT forks, options, and then helped me think through what would be good solutions. He definitely did not sell me the Ohlins forks....I bought them. We both knew I didn't need them....at all. But like I said, I wanted them so he was happy to call Ohlins and find a set for me. They are on the way from Sweden.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:47 PM   #136
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Default Re: Gen 1? Really....Do they still exist?

That was a cool TW video. Hmmm...its got me thinking. Maybe I'll sneak out in the desert with the TW. Maybe my better half won't notice? Who am I kidding...she'd kill me if I put the first scratch on it. I tried getting her to just drop it in the driveway just to get rid of the bad karma with a new bike. Of course, she responded I don't recall you 'dropping' the Tenere when you first brought it home. True...

Edit...in the one pix from the TW video at the Grand Canyon was at Toroweep. Thats a heck of ride to get there on a TW. hats off...
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