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Old 02-21-2017, 11:56 AM   #41
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

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Originally Posted by Tumbleweed View Post
I'm not sure why those looking for a real off-road oriented bike are even bothering with anything else besides the KTM 500EXC, or 690 Enduro, or the Husky variants. the new KTM 500 EXC-F (Fuelly) is just 240lbs without fuel! That is the answer for the Western Dual Sport rider in my eyes. I know it costs $10K+, that's the price for speed, capability, and low weight.



TW
I can answer that! ......you are right; the 500EXC is the pinnacle of offroad dual sport performance....in fact, I'm pretty sure I could race a cross country or hare scrambles with nothing more than tires and a gearing change.
....the flip side is that what makes it good in technical single track makes it suck anywhere else. Generally it is buzzy, twitchy, has no range, a seat that could be in contravention of the Geneva Convention, no luggage rack, no wind protection and it will never, ever get anywhere near 100,000 miles without several rebuilds. It's basically an offroad race bike with plates and lights.

The 690 is much closer to a KLR's mission but with much better suspension, brakes, power, etc. .....In fact, I was very close to buying one (two of my close friends had them and I got to spend some time on them). Ultimately I didn't like the ergonomics and there was no good solution for the tiny fuel capacity.....plus I figured the KLR had advantages in longevity, reliability and ease/cost of repairs and procurement of parts. I chose to modify my Gen1's and I think I got about 80% there and significantly closed the gap in offroad performance between a stock KLR and the KTM690. That said the 690 is as good as it gets as far as a stock, true, dual purpose bike IMO.
It's 308lbs dry which means its' only about 40 lbs or so lighter than my bikes....not insignificant but not enough to make me change bikes. If KTM had upgraded/updated the old 640 Adventure, I'd be riding one of those for sure ( they had really bad vibes and were too heavy)

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Old 02-21-2017, 12:27 PM   #42
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

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Originally Posted by Tumbleweed View Post
Sure, but considering the current offerings this one is looking pretty good. Even the 250cc CSC RX3 is listed at 385lbs.

Seems the requirements to produce a street legal bike at a profit force choices such as frame design and material, modest bodywork, EFI fuel pump and CPU, along with the ABS controller and pump - all add up to a bare minimum weight. Looks like 250-300cc is the bare minimum to push that down the road. I'll bet with minimal reinforcement the same bike could support double the HP, and then it would be much more appealing.

I don't see the X 300 as a giant success in the US, but I am hopeful it sells well to the market it is intended for. I am watching this because I am ever hopeful it is an indication of a larger bike coming that will be close to what we have been hoping for: A modern incarnation of the KLR that will reverse course and provide a more off-road biased machine. The Versys 650 LT can stay, it's a great bike. Just park a Versys-X 650 Adventure next to it in the line-up. That would be interesting.

I'm not sure why those looking for a real off-road oriented bike are even bothering with anything else besides the KTM 500EXC, or 690 Enduro, or the Husky variants. the new KTM 500 EXC-F (Fuelly) is just 240lbs without fuel! That is the answer for the Western Dual Sport rider in my eyes. I know it costs $10K+, that's the price for speed, capability, and low weight.

This X 300 is an absolute toy compared to those. It may just be the machine that gets my wife back on the road. The KLR I got her was too much to quickly.

TW
Agreed on all points.

Fact is, mainstream motorcycle companies, like mainstream automobile companies, must cater to the wants of the masses. The Versys-X 300 is a bike that should cater to a wider segment of the market. On paper, it should be a winner.

We can't all have exactly what we want right out of the box. It's one reason I think the KLR and the DR have been so successful. They are a good platform upon which you can build and customize the bike to your wants and needs.

It's tougher to do that with a modern bike. As we both noted, you add emissions, ABS, EFI, etc.....and then try to build it at a price point that will actually sell, and you get the Versys-X 300. A very good bike, that could be so much better.....but it would cost another $1k or $2k to make it better, and then it wouldn't sell.

So again, I think the Versys-X 300 might just be a winner. I suspect they'll continue with theme and the Versys-X 650 will be the successor to the KLR. It will be a sad day, but it is inevitable. Hopefully, if that is the direction they go, they won't forget what made the KLR so successful......Make it a good platform on which to build, and keep some of that dirt bias.

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Old 02-21-2017, 01:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

I'm not eager to see the KLR Big Single engine replaced, but the writing is on the wall. It's also not the death of the machine, even if they switch to a Versys-X name. The little 300 has KLR dna in the chassis. Rather I see the future with welcome anticipation. New is not worse, most of the time, just different, and often better. There will be plenty of riders keeping the carb'd Dual Sports alive.

I've got a lot of experience with old machines and keeping them going, including a 1981 DT100 2-stoke smokin fun bike. Lots of vintage air cooled VWs. My current "driver" is a 98 Astro (completely rebuilt), my current project is a 1979 320i with manual CIS fueling, also rebuilt, just needs cosmetics, and I've worked on virtually every variant of OBD since it came out. Each one helping (some) to make the machines run cleaner. Most recently I picked up the tech kit to hook a laptop up to my VStrom for schedule maintenance and potentially troubleshooting, but this bike is virtually trouble free.

I enjoy working on stuff and would like to have a model A at sometime as well, I think I would enjoy the simplicity of it. Just about any part needed is still available.

So I don't see a change in the KLR platform as a bad thing. Rather, I think it is time, I realy have not come around to appreciate the Gen II. They didn't do enough to improve it and actually took capability away. The time is ripe to capitalize on the ADV market and bring a more dirt oriented player to the Value end of the spectrum. There are presently too many heavy, over-powered, and fragile monsters on the expensive end of the scale. The Afrika Twin could be considered the mid-point I guess. Most of the affordable bikes are well out of date, with the exception of the WR250.

I'm not afraid of the tech, and I'm not cheap either. I've said it before, still applies: The KLR is my Flat Fender Jeep - a true classic, and I don't need to beat it up in todays traffic every day. My VStrom has taken that place,it is really good, but it's not a KLR. I want a truly modern KLR, and am holding out getting a Afrika Twin for a bit longer, I don't really want a bike payment again. My alternative is still an early 2000s GS1150 for about $5K. That would be a lifetime buddy as well, with it's own quirks.

TW
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:57 PM   #44
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

I'm not dreading the advent of the new "KLR" either. I bought a 2016 Triumph Scrambler this past winter and dug into it.....just for giggles. One of the new things for me was tuning via an ECM. I purchased an OBD-2 cable and downloaded a tune from Triumph Twin Power. They use a licensed version of TuneECU for their tune loader. So I pulled the SAI, the 02 sensors, pulled the snorkel and installed a high flow bellmouth along with a high flow filter.....Topped it off with a Zard 2:1 exhaust. I then chose the appropriate Tune from TTP and with fear and trepidation.....I plugged into the ECM and loaded the tune. WOW! While EFI is a bit mysterious and spooky for those of us who have only worked on carb machines, it is AMAZING. The software enables you to see and monitor everything. I could see my Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) was off a smidge, and I was also able to see my throttle bodies were not perfectly aligned. With a couple minor tweaks, and then an adaptation process......The bike is running fabulous!

So I definitely do not dread the advent of EFI and the modern "KLR" or whatever they choose to call it.

Side note.....My first car was a 1974 Beetle. What a great first car. I did everything to that machine. It was like working on a lawn mower. Every 6,000 miles I replaced plugs, points and condenser, and I used a static timing light to align the distributor. As you know, the oil pan on that thing only held 2.5 quarts of oil and it did not have a filter, just a screen on the bottom under a plate hold on with 6 nuts. There was no way to change the oil and not get it running down your hand. Pulling the engine was stupid easy. I even replaced the entire front end. All I had to do is unbolt the tie rods, then unbolt the 4 big bolts that held the front end to the firewall, and then jack up the car and roll the front end right out from under it. What a crazy stupid simple car. I loved that thing. I learned a whole lot about what actually makes a car run by working on it. Good times! Just like working on my KLR now. More good times!

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Old 02-21-2017, 03:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Mitch" View Post
I'm not dreading the advent of the new "KLR" either. I bought a 2016 Triumph Scrambler this past winter and dug into it.....just for giggles. One of the new things for me was tuning via an ECM. I purchased an OBD-2 cable and downloaded a tune from Triumph Twin Power. They use a licensed version of TuneECU for their tune loader. So I pulled the SAI, the 02 sensors, pulled the snorkel and installed a high flow bellmouth along with a high flow filter.....Topped it off with a Zard 2:1 exhaust. I then chose the appropriate Tune from TTP and with fear and trepidation.....I plugged into the ECM and loaded the tune. WOW! While EFI is a bit mysterious and spooky for those of us who have only worked on carb machines, it is AMAZING. The software enables you to see and monitor everything. I could see my Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) was off a smidge, and I was also able to see my throttle bodies were not perfectly aligned. With a couple minor tweaks, and then an adaptation process......The bike is running fabulous!

So I definitely do not dread the advent of EFI and the modern "KLR" or whatever they choose to call it.

I'm probably the opposite of most people on here. I got into automotive repair when everything was pretty much all Fueul Injection. Give me a no-start or a driveability problem on EFI, and it's easy for me to diagnose. Carburetor? Not so much. I also had a 74 Beetle for a while... it ran okay, but I was never confident in its "tune". I've also done some simple "clean out the carb" on random power equipment over the years. I didn't know exactly what I was doing and what the specific failure was, but things were fine once it was all put back together. My KLR is my first legitimate foray into carbureted engines... Thank God for this site, otherwise I'd be looking at an EFI upgrade.

When I hear people talk about the difficulty or possible failures of EFI, I just kind of shake my head. Sure, the early stuff that was all based on vacuum was a mess and a nightmare, but pretty much everything OBD-II onward is relatively simple and bullet proof. I worked as a Subaru tech for 3 years. I probably changed out less than a dozen injectors in that time. The only times I had to swap out an ECU was because the car got flooded. You're more likely to have a breakdown from neglected maintenance on a mechanical item than from an electronic failure.

For some pretty good insight into what is possible with modern engine tuning, I'm a big fan of Mighty Car Mods on Youtube. Seeing how they tune those Halltech ECUs... setting different maps for gas, ethanol or any ratio of the 2, changing boost pressures, and being able to reliably maximize power... to my mind that makes more sense than "turn out the screw until it sounds ok".

At the end of the day, is there really a fundamental difference between upgrading to a 4-barrel carb and an HEI ignition versus upgrading to a high-capacity fuel pump, bigger injectors, LS-1 coil swap and a new fuel map?
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:44 PM   #46
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

Congrats on the Triumph tune. I have HPTuner for getting into my Chevy ecus, but have yet to mess with the fuel map. Need to get the wideband sensor.

So back to this little bike, it needs to be good to keep market share from the likes of the RX3, which is going to be tough. China bikes are improving quickly.

I'm also watching Zero electric bikes. Really good stuff going on there and opening up a whole new sector for DS travel. If I need another commute bike in the future it will probably be electric.

I just helped my neighbor with his 78 Westfalia. Rotted heater box exhaust outlet. Gave it a 6 month lease with a quick weld in patch, but he'll need new boxes. $400 each I think he said. Ouch. I got out of them when I started having trouble with South American parts and most of the german stuff was gone. Good times indeed, and I kept all my special tools for the Dune Buggy I've always wanted.
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

When I look at this bike I see a new KLE500. I bet the brakes suck, it's performance is anemic, we already can see the suspension is limited. It has all the current, barely average capability of any other Japanese economy build with updates like EFI, finally six gears, a smoother Ptwin from our historical perspective of the KLR650. I immeadiately see the need for some of the same upgrades I did to my KLR to make it more realistic.

Overall it's a good offering for a world market who is not in the position to own or have the $$$ to pay for something better. I bet it will be reliable and have good sales worldwide. I see a pretty good market for it here in the US. I see that Ptwins will be the new thumper; less bore and stroke per cylinder isn't a bad thing. I wonder if/when Suzuki will have a shoe to drop in this. The Japanese have suffered and are continuing to suffer the effects of a great Recession.

While my KLR isn't in the back furtherest from the garage door it is getting dangerously close to the Vespas covered with mouse turds and a tarp. What keeps it viable is parts, a community, the fact that it starts easily and a particular type of riding style that is getting close to vintage after the new sales marketing.

What excites me, what I'm willing to pay for and what I will do with it now aren't completely clear but I'm not the target market anymore so there's that. I got a virus from an older Ducati that seems to be the most persistent right now. I am looking forward to extended trips in Canada once it's complete. Still like flingn gravel though.

Mitch you have a great family following there and the Triumph looks great.
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:59 PM   #48
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

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When I look at this bike I see a new KLE500. I bet the brakes suck, it's performance is anemic, we already can see the suspension is limited. It has all the current, barely average capability of any other Japanese economy build with updates like EFI, finally six gears, a smoother Ptwin from our historical perspective of the KLR650. I immeadiately see the need for some of the same upgrades I did to my KLR to make it more realistic.

Overall it's a good offering for a world market who is not in the position to own or have the $$$ to pay for something better. I bet it will be reliable and have good sales worldwide. I see a pretty good market for it here in the US. I see that Ptwins will be the new thumper; less bore and stroke per cylinder isn't a bad thing. I wonder if/when Suzuki will have a shoe to drop in this. The Japanese have suffered and are continuing to suffer the effects of a great Recession.

While my KLR isn't in the back furtherest from the garage door it is getting dangerously close to the Vespas covered with mouse turds and a tarp. What keeps it viable is parts, a community, the fact that it starts easily and a particular type of riding style that is getting close to vintage after the new sales marketing.

What excites me, what I'm willing to pay for and what I will do with it now aren't completely clear but I'm not the target market anymore so there's that. I got a virus from an older Ducati that seems to be the most persistent right now. I am looking forward to extended trips in Canada once it's complete. Still like flingn gravel though.

Mitch you have a great family following there and the Triumph looks great.
I was just reading about the small bike craze. Suzuki has a new offering a V-Strom 250 Twin , Good looking but heavy @421 lbs 17" cast almn wheels, Honda CRF 250 Rally 346 lbs no info on wheel size ,BMW 310GS 375 lbs,19"front 17" rear cast almn wheels, No info on in this article..
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Old 02-24-2017, 05:42 PM   #49
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

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Mitch you have a great family following there and the Triumph looks great.
Thank You.

Looking forward to Spring. Big Dan and I are already talking about another ride. We'll copy you when plans start to jell.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:03 AM   #50
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

Well the Versys X-300 has arrived in the U.S. Initial owner reports are starting to come in and seem to be very favorable. I really don't need another bike this year, so I'll be continuing to watch and see how the bike does. Almost bullet-proof Ninja 300 motor, scaled down KLR frame and suspension, and a high build quality, all good things.

I moved this thread from the Off-Topic to the Versys Main Discussion.

I don't see any problem with someone starting a Versys X-300 Owners thread.

TW
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:27 AM   #51
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

I went and bought a Versys 650LT this weekend and did have the opportunity to sit on the VersysX... I would highly recommend SITTING ON IT FIRST. IMO it needs a complete overhall of the operator's situation. The seat was terrible and maybe it's because I am tall, but I couldn't stand sitting on it for a minute in the showroom. Also, the Yamaha Bolt has a similar problem as to why it hasn't sold well. Terrible seating lends to terrible selling. Otherwise, I was kinda excited to see it in person, but I wouldn't buy one until they fix that issue
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:13 PM   #52
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

There has been talk on another forum about the seat situation. I'm sure it will be addressed quickly by Kawi if they listen to the feedback. The intent was to create a low seat height bike, and they did it by compromising comfort it seems.

There are some overseas markets reporting getting the taller touring seat on some Touring models, but it seems the majority of bikes are arriving with the standard, low and very hard seat - not to worry, that's easy for the aftermarket to address.

TW
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

quick fix is an air hog pad, but ya, it should come factory with a better seat
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:02 PM   #54
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

IM getting the feeling like kawi has no idea what direction they are going in . They had a winner with the kle500 , 6 speed 50hp and never brought it to north america . I would have bought that bike in a heartbeat if it was available here .
Now they bring out a smaller version ... its like no manufacturer wants to win .
A versys x 650 will be a winner . And if they had a brain , they would have come out with one when they brought out the versys lineup ages ago ..
IF KAWI IS LISTENING .. 500 to 650 twin .... 6 speed ... over 50 hp ... 21-17 ... should have happened 10 years ago .. oh wait ... kle500 ...
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:13 PM   #55
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

I bought a new 2017 non-abs Versys-X 300 in late November. I sold my 2015 KLR650 (my ninth KLR in 25 years) about a month earlier because I was just ready for a change. The Versys 300 became the bike of choice because nothing else was introduced at the November EICMA bike show that interested me, because it was lighter than the KLR by about 50 lbs, because it is fuel injected, and because of my interest in owning a smaller, but capable motorcycle. It was a good choice for me. I also own a 2015 Super Tenere that is great for long distance or faster trips.

I have ridden the bike over 2000 miles and it is a blast to ride.....had to buy foot peg lowering blocks and the accessory Kawasaki tall set for better ergos as I am 6'4" with a 35 inch inseam. The bike is smooth at all speeds/rpm and has no problem keeping up with traffic.

The only down rating is for the stock and tall seat.........they SUCK and are as hard as granite. I have solved that problem by using an Air Hawk inflatable seat cushion and the ride is much better. Still, it is not as comfortable as
my Corbin flat seat on the KLR was.

Just some info for those who are interested in the Versys-X 300.
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Old 01-29-2018, 09:55 AM   #56
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Default Re: 2017 Versys-X 300

I purchased a leftover '17 non abs model on Saturday. At $4900 out the door blowout price I could not resist. I was there to look at getting another Kdx200 to go ride with my oldest son on his. As I walked by the 300 on the way to the shed to see the Kdx I casually asked "how much". never made it to the Kdx hahaha
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