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Old 05-01-2010, 10:19 AM   #61
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwatkins View Post
So this shows that over 1/2 a litre 500ml is suspended in the engine during operation or running at idle. During my time as chassi engineer with race teams in Europe during the 80's our Engine builders spent as much time trying to keep the oil in the sump of engines. At higher revs the ludricant loose to upper regions of the engine could cause failure from lack of oil because it was all in the valve cover and couldn't get back down in time. Of course when the engine was stripped the correct amount of oil was present and back where it belonged.

Should add I run my 88 Blue 250ml over full that is 2.75 ltrs total with no ill effect to oil temperature during running because I rev the shit out of it 6 to 9000 revs when having a crack, and only run Kmart oil and change it every 1000 miles


Search for the thread here - someone was running their engine with 3 qts of oil. Perhaps you could find him and ask if he's still doing that and if its had any issues.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:42 AM   #62
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

I think the sightglass is a pretty effective system. IMHO as long as there is cool oil available at the oil pump pickup in the bottom of the crankcase, no immediate harm is done. Design engineers round off the numbers anyway when they specify the amount of oil. You all don't think they take some type of measurement of the crankcase volume and design it for 2.5 liters do you? They fill a prototype with enough to bring the level below the crankshaft so the oil is not whipped into a froth, then they round down to an even number like 2.5 liters, and tell the design team to put a sight glass in that looks full when 2.5 liters of oil is present. It ain't rocket science. Hell rocket science ain't rocket science.

Measure with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:52 AM   #63
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

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Originally Posted by jhampshire View Post
I think the sightglass is a pretty effective system. IMHO as long as there is cool oil available at the oil pump pickup in the bottom of the crankcase, no immediate harm is done. Design engineers round off the numbers anyway when they specify the amount of oil. You all don't think they take some type of measurement of the crankcase volume and design it for 2.5 liters do you? They fill a prototype with enough to bring the level below the crankshaft so the oil is not whipped into a froth, then they round down to an even number like 2.5 liters, and tell the design team to put a sight glass in that looks full when 2.5 liters of oil is present. It ain't rocket science. Hell rocket science ain't rocket science.

Measure with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe.
Oh great, now I supposed to be using an axe during the oil change? Is that a single bladed kind or the kind with two blades?

Forget it, I'm just gonna fill it up and ride it. The way mine has started burning oil, it will automatically go from "too much", to "just right", and then to "too little" without any help from me...
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:22 PM   #64
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Excellent pictures, thank you . I was wondering if the empty sight glass when it was running was normal... I'm kind of old school and used to dipsticks. Tricky part for me is holding the bike level while reading the sight glass. I'm always scared I'm going to pull it over on myself so I usually put my maintenance stand under it and just lift it enough to get it straight up and down. I'm sure with a little more practice I will be able to read it easily without the stand.

Also of interest to me was the price of the 685 kit... I thought it would be quite a bit more. I am hoping I don't have an oil burning problem later, but if I do I will go for the 685. Awesome bike all around!
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:20 AM   #65
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Quote:
. . . only run Kmart oil . . .
You got, Kmarts, pwatkins?

Next thing I know, you'll claim you have MacDonald's, too!

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Old 05-03-2010, 04:17 AM   #66
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

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You got, Kmarts, pwatkins?

Next thing I know, you'll claim you have MacDonald's, too!

Yep we have McDonalds, KFC and all the good stuff you get.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Awesome work.

Just the facts as they occurred.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:55 PM   #68
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Nice write up - Thanks Wyman. Makes sense to me = measure in and measure out. My question is this: On the measure out, how much should we take into account for the oil filter or residual loss. Thanks again.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:08 PM   #69
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

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Nice write up - Thanks Wyman. Makes sense to me = measure in and measure out. My question is this: On the measure out, how much should we take into account for the oil filter or residual loss. Thanks again.
Marc,

if you allow the oil filter chamber to drain (bike vertical for a few minutes) the loss will be negligible in my limited experience...

i drain the oil when it is hot, generally VERY hot...and let it drain for about 20 minutes or so, then rock the bike back and forth to get all (or most all) of the oil out...

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Old 05-27-2010, 04:53 PM   #70
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Saw the comments about overfilling not being a problem. Well, that's not true in my experience! My '08 was a bad oil burner, and got significantly worse after I had to have the cases split to fix a holed crankcase after a crash (I posted photos here a few months back).

Anyway, on a 10 day ride a year or so ago, I was refilling every day and having to go & buy oil every couple of days. One day I overfilled it, not by much I think. It puked the excess up into the airbox and fouled the filter.

I realised something was up when it wouldn't rev uphill, and the power just faded away over a few miles. Stopped and thought to check the airfilter - totally soaked with oil. Luckily my buddy had a roll of TP so I got most of the oil out of the filter and it was alright after that.

Now I know why the book says not to overfill!
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:11 PM   #71
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

I personally have been doing a daily trial of running different levels of oil.
I started out witht he 2.5L of oil which took it above the window.
I personally think this is a dangerous game to play because you CAN have to much oil and the window is there for a reason, and if you cant see a level in there it's pointless.
Now... I have been racing my KLR around town, NYC, and in these heat conditions I have noticed that both in traffic and at 75MPH on the highway the KLR runs warmer when filled with 2.5 L of oil due to the mass of hot viscous oil making it impossible to keep at ideal temp. This cooling issue cause a significant punch in power and not to mention long term wear and heat aging on engine. In any case I have been running it with the window half full (around two liters) for a day or two now and It runs and cool like a dream, granted I am using an amazing oil, (Act>Evo X–Tra 4T 20/50) which costs me 7.50 a liter at my local motorcycle mechanic. I prob would fill it higher to around just below the fill like which is around 70% of the window if I were using a thinner oil, in the cooler months when runing 10-40, because I am no longer going to be concerned about the lag caused from a motor fighting its way through a thick oil.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:20 PM   #72
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

V interesting comments, thanks! I just changed the oil about 500 miles after having the 685 kit installed (yes, I also changed it at about 40 miles). This time rather than filling to the top of the window I measured 2.5l in, which is (as reported) higher than the top of the sight glass.

I noticed that it runs hotter. I assumed this was a 685 effect, but perhaps it's due to more oil. I also noticed that on a ride today it wasn't pulling cleanly from low revs. Checked the air filter, it's disgusting. Cleaned it and there's clearly more than the notoil I use - I had to clean it out with detergent and there's still oily residue on it. I wonder whether excess oil has been vented to the airbox and clogged the filter. Perhaps 2.5l really is too much oil.

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Old 06-05-2010, 11:56 PM   #73
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmstirling View Post
Perhaps 2.5l really is too much oil.
It can't be, its stamped on the case!


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Old 06-06-2010, 10:19 AM   #74
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

I know it's stamped on the case but there's also a window with a line that is at the top line at approx 2.2-2.3 liters so......
in any case I'm talking about engine performance, in summer NYC street traffic and on highway in high RPM for long time, in relation to cooling as well as ability to move through 20-50 oil so this is a specific scenario.
In any case I personally will never put in 2.5 liters as long as cooling is an issue.
Perhaps in the winter I will fill just below the window line in an effort to keep motor a little warmer for operating, In any case I cant say yet since I cant test in it now.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:36 AM   #75
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

I try to keep it right at the top of the glass. That way if I do burn a little, it doesn't get too low.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:55 AM   #76
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

GREAT JOB!
Great pics and captions.
I have (Will Have, picking up this week) OLD, 1989 KLR650.
Is this correct for mine or do you know?
I have so many questions about my bike, I wonder if there is a Year Specific Thread or resource. Anyone know?
Thanks and again Great Job!
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:18 PM   #77
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

I agree that it's wise to fill it if you don't constantly monitor and fill the level but my klr is a 2006 with 4,200 miles so it burns no oil at all.
I think it's wise to fill it if you want to follow the suggested amount which in my opinion is consistant with what factory suggestions typically are.
Factory suggestions for oil level seem to give you an amount assuming you will burn some due to an improperly aging motorcycle coupled with their inferior quality oil. They also assume you won't know anything about motorcycles and will just be taking it to the dealership every couple thousand miles them to "magically" maintain your bike.
Now... if you actually know how to monitor and fill your bike if necessary I maintain that it may be better for the performance and wear of the bike to be kept at 50% of the window for best performance and wear protection, but you must use the right oil.
I suggest you feel these effects on your bike for yourself, I would stand behind and suggest Act>Evo X–Tra 4T part synthetic blend, 20w50 for summer and 10w40 for winter, and it's only $7.00 a liter!!
once you try this you won't go back!!!
If your OK with being OK than just fill it to the line with whatever and it'll be just fine.
If you strive for more than test oils, feel the motor, and dare to disagree.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:28 PM   #78
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmandel View Post
I agree that it's wise to fill it if you don't constantly monitor and fill the level but my klr is a 2006 with 4,200 miles so it burns no oil at all.
I think it's wise to fill it if you want to follow the suggested amount which in my opinion is consistant with what factory suggestions typically are.
Factory suggestions for oil level seem to give you an amount assuming you will burn some due to an improperly aging motorcycle coupled with their inferior quality oil. They also assume you won't know anything about motorcycles and will just be taking it to the dealership every couple thousand miles them to "magically" maintain your bike.
Now... if you actually know how to monitor and fill your bike if necessary I maintain that it may be better for the performance and wear of the bike to be kept at 50% of the window for best performance and wear protection, but you must use the right oil.
I suggest you feel these effects on your bike for yourself, I would stand behind and suggest Act>Evo X–Tra 4T part synthetic blend, 20w50 for summer and 10w40 for winter, and it's only $7.00 a liter!!
once you try this you won't go back!!!
If your OK with being OK than just fill it to the line with whatever and it'll be just fine.
If you strive for more than test oils, feel the motor, and dare to disagree.
Hey, I've never heard of that oil...where do I buy it? It sure sounds like great stuff!
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Old 06-07-2010, 03:38 PM   #79
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

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Hey, I've never heard of that oil...where do I buy it? It sure sounds like great stuff!
stay with Mobil 1, 15w-50...
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:55 AM   #80
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Default Re: Oil Fill Excercise...a must read...lots of pics!!!

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Originally Posted by wymanwinn View Post
stay with Mobil 1, 15w-50...
Is it a problem using Rotella T 15-40 always or at some point switch to something else? I've switched to Rotella T with my last oil change. Currently I'm at 1700km on my new '09 (08/08 manufacture date) so can I stay this way or should the Mobil 1 be the preferred at what point? The dealer said to wait until 3-5000Km before going to a synthetic. I've got enough Rotella on hand for a couple of changes but after that?
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